Comments on Anti-Procreation Movement: Anti-Procreation Movement

I believe society today has become filthier than t...

2009-02-14T15:19:00.000-08:00

I believe society today has become filthier than the landfills we've created.

Sexual garbage contamination is everywhere, infesting the media and society and resulting in something of total acceptance because "it's popular and everybody is doing it". The result: more people (especially teens) sleeping around and procreating. It's revolting!

Have we no other purpose than to overpopulate and destroy this planet? You would think that our impact on wildlife and the Earth's environmental concerns would give people an incentive to stop procreating. But alas, we are talking about a selfish species. Controlling OUR population is out of the question. Procreating cows would fight for their "freedom" to pop out a bunch of kids. Oh, but someone's freedom for abortion is controversial and out of the question. BS!

I have so much sympathy for the poor animals that have to share this planet with human scum. People just make them suffer, hogging all the Earth's natural resources; dumping toxic waste, polluting the air and water, cutting down the rain forest, building on land, killing off animals, etc.

It's time the people who care and feel the same take a stand against this and say "Enough is enough"!

Anon, you're certainly right that the main reason ...

2008-12-16T10:07:00.000-08:00

Anon, you're certainly right that the main reason people do not even question natalist views is because they are taught from birth. We should gear the message to younger people. I too wish it was taught in some public setting like in a public school, but at this point there is little to no hope for that. However, a second prime target for the message is college campuses. It is not too late to convince this population as they are not established in the full time adult world quite yet and they are still in a state of relative questioning about values (or we hope that's the case, if not we are doomed). At this stage maybe we can send fliers and such and meet ups to encourage debate about the antinatalist view.

On a side note. Can you look at my new blog and tell me what you think? Its http://apmovement.blogspot.com

Compoverde, my only idea at this point for helping...

2008-12-15T21:11:00.000-08:00

Compoverde, my only idea at this point for helping to spread the movement is by educating the people who really matter... the young generation. It has occurred to me that most people grow up assuming they will one day breed. We can probably all remember hearing that familiar refrain from our elders, "When you're a parent..." "When you have kids of your own..." Maybe this sounds like a string of harmless aphorisms, but think about it. We essentially brainwash people from the time they're tiny tots that they WILL go ahead and make babies just as their predecessors did. Little kids tend to be unquestioning, and if society drills the same ideas into their impressionable minds long enough, they ideas will stick. Not only do kids learn this crap in their homes, and while at school... they are also constantly bombarded with the pro-natalist agenda via media, movies, magazines, etc. No wonder so many people obediently breed because it's "what you do" once you've reached a certain age and have married (another societal ritual that's beaten into the heads of young people starting early in childhood). I would love it if there were a way to inject into mainstream school curricula the concept that procreation is a choice, that it has some pretty serious consequences, and that everyone would do well to consider all the pros and cons (for oneself, as well as for one's potential future offspring) before taking that step. It sounds so basic, and yet, I suspect that if kids started thinking much more critically, from a young age, about the choice to reproduce, within a generation or two we'd see birth rates falling much faster. Now... how to facilitate the inclusion of this heretical concept into school curricula??? That's the real question. Society is so very pro-natalist, it would be a difficult sell.

Thank you for the very intelligent comment. the mo...

2008-12-14T15:58:00.000-08:00

Thank you for the very intelligent comment. the movement needs people like you to spread the word. Do you have any suggestions on how to get this idea out to more people? We need to start some sort of movement to get the idea in the mainstream, because as you said, it is our concern; it is future generations that we are trying to save from existence.

Katherine's reflex reaction to the argument agains...

2008-12-14T08:58:00.000-08:00

Katherine's reflex reaction to the argument against procreation is so tired and predictable, it bores the Thinker to tears...

The masses are so very resistant to the concept of asymmetry... Is it that they are not intellectually equipped to comprehend, or because they can't be bothered to try to suss it out in their own heads, or because the truth is too painful for them to bear (perhaps because they have already obediently committed to the path of procreation themselves)?

When the Katherines of the world state that it's ok for us to decide not to have kids, but that we have no right to harp on those who do (for it is a personal choice and an inalienable right, no doubt???), what they fail to consider is that their choice has ramifications beyond those which they alone must confront. After all, they are sentencing an innocent being to life. THAT's what makes it our business. I'm genuinely concerned about the suffering of humans to-be-born. I act in the best interest of these innocent beings when I beseech would-be breeders to reconsider.

Hi compoverde. A very nice, easy to understand sum...

2008-11-09T19:43:00.000-08:00

Hi compoverde. A very nice, easy to understand summation of Benatar's asymmetry. A lot of people seem to have trouble grasping it, though I'm not sure why. An existant person comes into being, experiences some joys, suffers along the way, then dies. From his point of view, it's as if he never existed, while friends and loved ones experience his death as a loss.

The never-existant person, however, never suffers, never dies, and nobody misses him. He never experiences happiness, of course; but then, he'll never miss it, never having existed in the first place. Life is a circle of agony whose destination is the starting point...non-existence. Why begin the process in the first place?

The point of the article is not to show whether li...

2008-10-22T23:48:00.000-07:00

The point of the article is not to show whether life has meaning, or whether there is a point to life or not, it is to show that there is a profound suffering to human life and that if there is a choice between keeping a potential child non-existent or making a new life, it is always a benefit for the potential child to keep the potential child non-existent.

There is a good book about this very subject that recently came out. It's called Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence. When you don't bring a child into existence, it won't feel the bad of existence, which is good. When you don't bring a child into existence it won't feel the good, but that is NOT BAD because the being does not exist and will not be deprived of the feeling of good. This is a brief summary of his argument. Simply put, not experiencing good and not experiencing bad are preferable to experiencing some good and bad. The non-existent being is not being HARMED for not feeling the good (it is neither good nor bad), and is prevented from the harm of the bad of existence (which is good).

Do whatever works for you. If you don't want kids,...

2008-10-15T21:33:00.000-07:00

Do whatever works for you. If you don't want kids, then by all means don't have kids. However, I don't see why you have to judge those who choose to procreate. Not everybody feels the ennui of existence to the extent that you do. I've experienced this feeling myself, but there are many ways of dealing with it. If you're non-religious, define a purpose for yourself. Personally, I'm happy to experience life, and I don't feel guilty for giving my unborn child the same opportunity.

Anonymous sept25,If you are addressing me, the aut...

2008-09-26T14:22:00.000-07:00

Anonymous sept25,

If you are addressing me, the author, of course I believe my own writing. It may seem counter-intuitive, but what I have written can be summed up in one simple way. We are constantly deprived of something at all times. We cannot be, we must always move this way or that based on discomfort of some level, whether it be physical, or emotional, we are compelled to seek survival and comfort and flee boredom, its that simple. On a less abstract level, don't forget all those daily, weekly, monthly, yearly annoyances that pile up in our lives from bad circumstances that fall upon us all. Like a hay stack, the annoyances and frustrations might be small if taken as a singularity, but even a ton of hay will eventually be too much to bear.

You are a great writer...you don't really believe ...

2008-09-25T18:24:00.000-07:00

You are a great writer...you don't really believe the content, do you?

Conceiving a Child is a Sin-I am so glad you have ...

2008-09-23T17:47:00.000-07:00

Conceiving a Child is a Sin-

I am so glad you have taken such a proactive approach to the anti-procreation philosophy. Thanks for your comments and welcome to the anti-procreation blog. As far as your book, are you almost done, do you need me to collaborate, because I would be happy to help in certain areas. It sounds like a great idea, with your treatise on the non-benevolant god and anti- law of karma. I agree with those ideas to the extent taht I don't believe in karma, reincarnation, or any metaphysical pheneomena as such, including a creator/sustainer being that most religions claim as a divinity. As far as publishing, I've never done so myself so I don't know where to direct you. I did a quick search on Google and found this: http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/publishbook/publishbook.html. Maybe it can be of help to you. Otherwise, the e-book sounds like a good idea, just have good SEO methods to get it noticed on the web. My question to you is, how can we expand our base on the ground outside the web. Are there meetups that people like me and you can do in our communities, to discuss the various aspects of anti-procreation philosophy? Also, how do we get people interested enough to go to such meetings and events? Well, I look forward to your suggestions.

Compoverde – Thank you, for this blog and for your...

2008-09-22T06:10:00.000-07:00

Compoverde – Thank you, for this blog and for your efforts in bringing anti-procreationists together. I am also grateful to the other anti-procreation sites and the people behind them – Moral Childfree, Antinatalism, Discontinuation – as well as all other believers of the truth. I am struck by the wisdom and knowledge displayed by all you wonderful people, as well as your excellent writing skills.

It’s funny – almost 7 billion people in this world, and only a handful recognize the truth – Schopenhauer has rightly observed – “In general, indeed, the wise in all ages have always said the same thing, and the fools, who at all times form the immense majority, have in their way too acted alike, and done just the opposite; and so it will continue. For, as Voltaire says, ‘we shall leave this world as foolish and as wicked as we found it on our arrival’.”

I have been preoccupied with writing my book, an exhaustive argument proving the immorality of procreation, as well as disproving both the Law of Karma and the concept of a benevolent and merciful God. It is almost complete now, and I am contemplating as to what to do with it. I don’t really have the patience to chase publishers, so I guess I might end up releasing it as an e book – any suggestions / assistance in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

Sean – I really enjoyed reading what you have to say – and am borrowing your last line for use in my book – hope you don’t mind.

P S

Awesome. What I think I might do is create a secon...

2008-08-08T17:12:00.000-07:00

Awesome. What I think I might do is create a second blog of my own after all, but this'll include the manifesto as well as more political resources, links, etc. For instance, I'll link to your blog amongst others for the overall philosophy of antinatalism/anti-procreation philosophy while mine will simple concern local, temporal, political action. If you have any suggestions, ideas, etc. feel free to email me (I think you can find a to my email on my Blogger profile). My name is Kyle.

Hey Nietzsche's Peachy,I do agree on the same anti...

2008-08-08T13:30:00.000-07:00

Hey Nietzsche's Peachy,

I do agree on the same anti-procreation. You should really look at my other blog for a fuller understanding of my philosophy. I wrote that in a more academic tone. www.condemnedtoexistence.blogspot.com. Maybe you can also look at that for ideas on how you want to shape your manifesto. Also, keep in mind to be realistic with it. Political actions only happen in increments, so if you put forward a plank on your platform, make it something simple but doable. You can't force people to think or do a certain way. Politics in a way, is about forcing large groups to do things. You must find a way to make what is essentially a belief and a philosophy into a political cause of some sort. As far as your interest in Nietzche, I like how you took some ideas from Nietzche and also from Schopenhauer. I tend to disagree with Nietzche. Schopenhauer is my main philosopher as he has a philosophy of Philosophical Pessimism. A contemporary philosopher by the name of David Benatar has written a book called "Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming Into Existence". This is a great argument for anti-procreation. Also, look at the website antinatalism.blogspot.com. Ask him for some advice to on turning this into a political platform as well. I hope this helps.

In truth, I would love to write such a political m...

2008-08-08T12:04:00.000-07:00

In truth, I would love to write such a political manifesto; anti-procreation is the only true political issue I've ever had a strong opinion on (most of the others have seemed rather futile to me). I just want to establish that we agree on the same anti-procreation. To me anti-procreation in no way equates with pro-suicide. That is to say that while one promulgates the self-induced suicide of our species, the latter promulgates the suicide of the individual. I agree only with the former assertion. In effect, when it comes to how I conduct my personal life, I agree whole-heartedly with Nietzsche; that is, my life is only justifiable or redeemable in the context of eternal recurrence. I live my life fluidly, happily, like an epic narrative in which my corporeal body is but an aggregate of the larger projection of myself. However, where I disagree with Nietzsche, and subsequently agree with Schopenhauer, is how we as a species ought to conduct ourselves. While our individual lives can find cosmic solace in death (everybody inevitably dies after all), our species is self-perpetuating. While it's eventual demise is certain, it is too far from now to not take immediate action.

I was thinking of writing a political manifesto on the above (with more political underpinnings and less about Nietzsche and more on Schopenhauer). What do you think?

Hello nietzche's peachy. Thank you for your commen...

2008-08-08T08:33:00.000-07:00

Hello nietzche's peachy. Thank you for your comments. Its good to know people out there who are interested and want to contribute to the cause of anti-procreation. As far as political action, I had a website called "Join the Anti-Procreation Revolution". Maybe, if you'd like, you can write a political manifesto of sorts, with platforms and such and I can put it on another blog, siting you as the author. As far as more detailed philosophy/ideology, Please check out my other more detailed blog condemnedtoexistence.blogspot.com and also some of the other sites on the Anti-Procreation Movement webring.

Damn, I was beaten to the punchline. I had been th...

2008-08-07T13:59:00.000-07:00

Damn, I was beaten to the punchline. I had been thinking of making a second blog of my own about anti-procreation. But, evidently, you've already done, what I believe to be, a pretty fantastic job at asserting such a view. One thing I would've discussed is the overall political aspects of this idea. In a sense, this is still a contrived ideal, but it is a contrived ideal that is self-aware, which is the overall beauty. I say, build a philosophy, an ideology from it. Create a movement and political party. Support any and all forms of birth-control and instill a new outlook on adoption in our culture. Elect officials with similar views who call for stricter regulations on who has children and how many they have. Maybe even self-imposed sterility later on down the line. For fuck's sakes, lets load thousands of cargo planes and bomb Africa with condoms, vaginal diaphragms, and birth-control shots. If we're going to out, let's alleviate the suffering.

Or we could just blow each other up. Same result, I suppose, though, I prefer the former.

Thank you Jim and anon. It is important that this...

2008-07-30T17:06:00.000-07:00

Thank you Jim and anon. It is important that this issue gets more recognized so that they will make the decision to vote with their feet and not procreate. Is anyone familiar with making webrings? This may be a good way to collaborate all of our sites and strengthen our efforts through collaboration.

In the global economy, we can vote with our feet t...

2008-07-27T09:35:00.000-07:00

In the global economy, we can vote with our feet to patronize or not patronize a business. I say if everyone got together and didn't breed, it would be a protest vote so to speak....and perhaps then we will get some answers, and if we don't, then we have stopped the vicious cycle.

Hi, Compoverde! Just thought I'd drop in and add a...

2008-07-24T22:16:00.000-07:00

Hi, Compoverde! Just thought I'd drop in and add a thought. The comments from your readers are so heartfelt. Seeker said:

"Your site has provided me with answers that religion never could. God whatever it is seems to remain silent as human suffering goes on. I have no desire to perform the self-centered selfish act of breeding. What a horrible and cruel thing to do to someone. After I am dead and gone they would have to endure all the horrors that life has to offer. Just because we can breed does not mean that we should. The children suffer, die and go hungry because the parents gave into their worthless needs. Having offspring is a lie that many have bought into without thinking about the consequences."

Seeker, I think one of the reasons you are so profoundly moved by this truth, is because once entertained, this truth becomes so obvious! It's not like religion, or some abstract philosophy or set of beliefs. It's something that's plainly and obviously felt by anyone whose empathy has reached a certain threshold, such that the old lines of rationalization can no longer be embraced. Life should not be, because suffering and death make it unnacceptable...period.

Want to end all pain, depression, anxiety, and all other forms of suffering in a single generation? Stop breeding...it's that simple.

Take care, one and all.

Hello June 8th anonymous and thanks for questions....

2008-06-10T10:37:00.000-07:00

Hello June 8th anonymous and thanks for questions. You do not need to refrain from sexual contact or have a vasectomy. That is an extreme, and although these two activities will definatley result in babies not being born, it is not necessary. Just as laser surgery might be a final correction to eye troubles, it is not necessary or might not be worth the risk in solving the problem when there are other options. Just use contraceptives when being sexually active, and this is good enough.

Of course, if you truly are dedicated to the anti-...

2008-06-08T20:51:00.000-07:00

Of course, if you truly are dedicated to the anti-procreation movement, you will not hesitate to either completely refrain from sexual contact or have a vasectomy, correct?

And if repeat your words people look at me like i'...

2008-05-14T19:50:00.000-07:00

And if repeat your words people look at me like i'm crazy..seriously. "You are depressing" "Get a girlfriend" ..and other things. I'm anti-life and i will always be, i can't fake it like other people..i see life as it truly is,meaningless suffering and who wants that?

Nice Blog btw:)

my response: relief. i am glad that there are othe...

2008-04-02T19:27:00.000-07:00

my response: relief. i am glad that there are others that feel as i do and i have (long before reading this) decided to join the non procreation band wagon! continue on not producing future workers, politicians and soccer moms.

Your site has provided me with answers that religi...

2007-12-03T07:57:00.000-08:00

Your site has provided me with answers that religion never could. God whatever it is seems to remain silent as human suffering goes on. I have no desire to perform the self-centered selfish act of breeding. What a horrible and cruel thing to do to someone. After I am dead and gone they would have to endure all the horrors that life has to offer. Just because we can breed does not mean that we should. The children suffer, die and go hungry because the parents gave into their worthless needs. Having offspring is a lie that many have bought into without thinking about the consequences.